Orbit quality vs hyperlaspe despite same speed

Karl Blessing
Noticed nearly every orbit has some degree of motion blur even when slowed down to 1-2mph , performing the same size of orbit by means of a hyperlapse, each raw dng file is much crisper as if the drone stayed still during the shot. Is there a setting to get orbits to have the same clarity that DJI fly gives? It's really night and day between the two.
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Comments

25 comments

  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff

    If you want the drone to stop for each capture, you have two options:

    • Convert the Orbit to an Inspection component (... > Convert)
    • Use a Facade component instead and set the capture speed to 0.1 (or some small number that results in the quality you need) - this of course won't make the drone come to a complete stop, but you may not need a complete stop...
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  • Comment author
    Barry Houldsworth Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert

    Other options - set your shutter speed as fast as possible.  If you are using an ND filter - take it off, it's not going to help you for photos and that will help get that faster speed. 

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing
    • Edited

    Barry shutter speed was 1/1600 hence why I'm asking because even at 2mph that should be more than sufficient.

    No nd filter is used, I understand how exposures triangle works , shutter speeds , rolling shutter etc. Asking why the app cannot achieve as good a result as the DJI fly app I similar functions without needing to become an enterprise level subscriber when I am not a commercial user.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    And inspection is a growth/enterprise feature only...

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  • Comment author
    Barry Houldsworth Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert

    Inspection is an option but, as you say, in a higher level plan (details on how to use here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQZLB1P8ExY)

    How low were you flying? 

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing
    • Edited

    125 feet , 2mph speed for a 100 foot orbit aimed at -51 degree gimbal.

    Then another at 300 feet radius at 4mph with gimbal at -31.

    The comparison was to a hyperlaspe roughly 150 feet radius at lower 90 feet AGL set at 2mph to take 375 images while tracking the lighthouse and came out with much much much clearer images.

     

    I'm on the elite (100) hobby plan.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    Follow up for details with an imgur link to allow for full image download. 

    https://imgur.com/a/ZHBEHLw

    The full size images can be viewed from there.

    Weather : 77% cloud cover (near the end got more sunny), Forecasted 11mph, in-flight wind on Air Data shows 13mph consistent, 16mph gusts during orbits, 13mph / 18mph during hyperlapse. 13.5/17.7 during mapping. 

    May notice that despite the increased distance (300 feet away vs 100 feet) results are about the same, but the hyperlapse at a lower altitude and around 150 feet away is cleaner despite still in motion (though did auto to 1/2000, but less than one stop of a difference should yield similar result for 1/1250 at 300 feet away). 

     

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  • Comment author
    Mike (Arizona Wyldwest) Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert

    Curious what drone. The app doesn’t control the cameras abilities so hard to say why they are blurry other then all the setup. Can you share the plan ? Maybe something in their which someone can help with. Just a thought. 

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  • Comment author
    Barry Houldsworth Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert

    I wonder if it's not a blur problem but a focus problem.  Can you try again but tap the screen to focus on a point before starting?

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing
    • Edited

    It's the DJI Air 2S, Did a focus before starting as I do usually, but was not aware that dronelink doesn't autofocus by default. 

    The other habit I changed was I usually left it on autoexposure, however in a few mapping tests I've done, it would occasionally overexpose the image, but oddly it didn't change the shutter speed or ISO based on the Exif, it would just simply end up being +3 overexposed looking in both DNG and JPG while having the same exposure settings as the normal frames. So I been doing manual exposure with dronelink since then. 

    Far as sharing the plan, assuming this works (first time sharing) https://app.dronelink.com/karl-blessing/venues/plan/SllDfPQiqEunI5A68CmK/C31THOJuTzMKYhN5x1Lx

    Did another run tonight (tapping to focus looking straight down first, then letting it start), 125ft altitude (200ft max class C airspace) 5mph basic map, set ISO 400 so I could set 1/2000 as the shutter speed (despite the Air 2S supporting 1/8000, 1/2000 is the maximum I can choose manually). Did two orbits at 2.5mph max speed, 200 feet diameter, in hindsight I didn't re-focus after changing the battery for the orbits, which I probably should have as the distance would be greater than the nadir distance knowing now that the app doesn't autofocus.  

    In the new run tonight, nadir at 5mph does seem cleaner with the minor blur that I would likely expect from rolling shutter from a non-stopping run. Apparently captured some teens trespassing in the rubble.  

    https://imgur.com/a/SloLRdw

    But you may be on to something regarding focus, especially since you would think 1/2000 would be enough. 

    Edit: In the first orbit you can see that theory is probably correct because of the focus falling on the old store front (ie: "Kim's Laundry") as opposed to the center of the frame, the store front would be about the same distance from the camera as shooting straight down at 125ft. 

     

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  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff
    • Edited

    but was not aware that dronelink doesn't autofocus by default. 

    Orbit is considered a lower level component and it leaves it up to the mission planner to decide if they want to issue an auto focus command or not. If you want it, you can always insert the command before the Orbit in the timeline. Facade, on the other hand, has a drop-down that allows you to specifiy the focus behavior, with auto focus being one of the options.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing
    • Edited

    I see. Was a little confused thinking about it because seems like it would be tedious having to do that when you have a whole mission planned out. But good to know that I can insert it into the timeline of each mission addition, seems can be set as an arrival component (only one arrival and departure action per task?)

    Will go into the document on other functions I'm guessing basic mapping is the same way, auto focus not being initiated by default.

     

    Will likely rerun the torn down building task again with edits since that's local to me to try it out and compare.

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  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff

    only one arrival and departure action per task?

    The arrival component can be a list, which can have multiple sub-components, but this may not be the best place to put the focus command as the camera will not be pointing at the subject yet. Facade automatically issues the focus command after the alignment has occurred to handle this case, but for an Orbit, you would probably have to use a series of other commands (heading, gimbal orientation, etc) before the focus command to be sure.

    I'm guessing basic mapping is the same way, auto focus not being initiated by default.

    It is off by default, but it is a higher level component like Facade, and has a drop-down that lets you specify auto-focus as a behavior, and it will also perform the command after alignment when it reaches the start of the first leg.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    I'm confused tho. If I can't put it at arrival because it won't be pointed at the subject, where would I put it? It won't be pointed at the initial subject either shortly before the orbit task and would be done and over with if I put it at departure.

    Unless I have to make a list guessing the drone orientation (like I know the gimbal set, just not what the heading will be) that the orbit would initially change to and put that as arrival option then focus.

    Basically I only see two possible places to put it.

    Right before the orbit task on the main list but I would have to also figure out where the orbit is going to be and heading because it'll be right after the previous task not yet at the start of the orbit position.

    Or inside the orbit as an arrival task, but again would not be pointing at the subject yet.

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  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff

    You would basically need to put a separate checkpoint near the start of the orbit and then put a heading and gimbal orientation command after that checkpoint, with knowledge of what the heading and gimbal orientation of the orbit will be (by using the mission preview probably). Again, this is the whole point of using Facade as it does all of this for you.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    Saw the facade feature the only issue is that it's not going to get the inside of a structure and there would be too many possible obstacles it would collide with without me being right on the ground next to it to watch out for (it's a closed off area to the public on the ground). So orbiting from above seemed like the safest thing to do given the situation against trees and what not since the air 2s probably isn't the best candidate for avoiding those and because the satilite map isn't 100% accurate to the planned out points (like orbiting the lighthouse, the satilite view in dronelink is a good 50 or so feet shifted to the west of the actual structure)

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  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff

    You can configure Facade to follow the same flight path as your Orbit if you select, the horizontal and circle options and configure the start and end altitude to the same thing.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing
    • Edited

    Oh. From the feature page I just assumed it went up and down parallel to walls defined.

     

    Edit : though I see spiral, circle, and polygon are enterprise/growth only features.

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  • Comment author
    Jim McAndrew Dronelink Staff

    Oh. From the feature page I just assumed it went up and down parallel to walls defined.

    This tutorial explains all the options.

    Edit : though I see spiral, circle, and polygon are enterprise/growth only features.

    If you are not using it for commercial purposes, you can always email support@dronelink.com for a-la-carte pricing.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    "If you are not using it for commercial purposes, you can always email support@dronelink.com for a-la-carte pricing."

    Thanks, was not aware of thar being option. Right now I'm just learning it, practicing, getting familiar with the functions and WebODM, and showing off. As well as making recommendations to the local college for third party apps based on what I tried.

    When I get my part 107 finalized that's when I'll start subscribing (likely form month to month as I bill the cost to potential clients).

    Thanks for the tutorial link.

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  • Comment author
    Barry Houldsworth Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert
    • Edited

    Karl Blessing

    Have you seen these videos?  Might be of interest given your comment above.

    3D Modeling - end to end -  https://youtu.be/nrw-3RLABkM

    Processing large models - https://youtu.be/F_yLtF9lTVs

     

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    Thanks for the links Barry, saved the first one to my bookmarks of reasources I been looking at. Initially I was just trying to create large panoramics (like I've done with a land camera during college, pushing 300mpixels or so from a 12mp camera). But soon as someone pointed out photogrammetry as a more accurate way of doing that, it's been a bit of a ride trying it out and trying to get better and better especially learning about the 3d portion of it.

    Far as the second link I think I'm doing ok so far, I have the windows native version of webdom and I have a small desktop with a Ryzen 5, 64gb ram, nvme SSD for the WebODM installation, and an Nvidia 2060 super 8gb card (my videography background to thank for that).

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    Follow up. 

    Seems like focus the main factor here. Did an other run over a big datacenter (formerly the Steelcase financial center). 200ft AGL (max auto approved for area), with the structure reaching probably 175~180ft at its peak so close proximity in motion. 

    https://imgur.com/a/3qtagPc

    Did the mapping run at 10mph (5mph faster than initial mission complained about), close orbit 200ft at 5mph (vs 2mph), and further 300ft orbit at 5mph (vs 4mph). Set the mapping to do focus mode of Autofocus, and tapped to focus at the start of each orbit. 

    As you can see above (if you open the image in a new window can see the full size), other than the small evidence of rolling shutter, it's quite clear and I'm chalking my initial issue to being a focus one as Barry has suggested.

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  • Comment author
    Barry Houldsworth Dronelink Expert Dronelink Expert

    Karl Blessing

    Good to hear!!  Great to see you are getting the results you need.

    I've suggested to Jim that he might want to make autofocus the default going forward.  Those that don't want AF are probably the ones to figure out how to turn it off also.

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  • Comment author
    Karl Blessing

    The follow up regarding adding features ala carte. Apparently that cannot be done and hasn't been done.

    "Hello Karl,

    We cannot selectively add those features to your Elite plan.
    We have only done this for non-profits that explain their needs and that was only for terrain follow.

    Best,
    Jacob"

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